Magistrate class 1...1pm March 7

 2011-03-07 22:08:06 note card

Meeting Summary: Legal Academy - Magistrates Course, Class 1 (Jurisdiction)

Instructor: Janette Inglewood

Participants:

• Torin Novo

• Corinne Elan

• Elena Dreamscape (wanaki.anton)

• Lady Alys (alys.brim)

• Wicked Vintner

• Thurstön (thurston.woodford)

• Keru Imako (joined late)

• Ariella Farshore (joined late)

Meeting Summary:

Janette Inglewood welcomed participants to the first class of the 8-week Magistrates course at the Legal Academy. She outlined administrative details, including the class format (discursive, 1 hour per session, 2 pieces of written work), the availability of class scripts and handouts in the group, and the existence of a duplicate class at 5 PM SLT. She also introduced herself as an experienced lawyer, Magistrate, and High Magistrate on SL Gor, who has been running these classes for nearly two years, noting that over 50 former students now work in law or related fields across Gor. The course concludes with a certificate and plaque recognized by many Gorean cities.

The core topic of the class was jurisdiction and the four types of law mentioned in the Gorean books:

• Merchant Law: Covers crimes outside a city and regulations like weights and measures across Gor.

• Initiate Law: Deals with matters concerning the Priest-Kings or the White Caste; an attack on an Initiate is considered an attack on the Caste itself.

• City Law (Civil/Municipal Law): Applies to crimes committed within the city walls.

• Caste Law: Focuses on Caste codes and internal matters, such as a Warrior's behavior.

Janette provided several examples to clarify jurisdiction:

• An Initiate attacked in a city by mercs: Primarily Initiate Law, but could fall to City Law if Initiate authority is absent or defers.

• A Lady Physician without children whose patient dies from treatment: A Caste Law matter.

• A Merchant robbed while traveling to another City: Merchant Law.

• A Merchant from another City robbed within your City: City Law (of your city).

The discussion explored more complex scenarios, emphasizing the importance of correctly determining jurisdiction to avoid overstepping or failing to act:

• Warrior collaring a Free Woman from another City within their own City: The jurisdiction lies with the City where the collaring occurred. While the offended city might be invited to observe, the trial would take place under the laws of the Warrior's City.

• Conflict with Initiate Law: Janette explained that Initiates view attacks on their caste members as religious matters. While they may defer to the City if the attack is deemed random, or if they are unable to act (especially in SL Gor), the initial jurisdiction for crimes against Initiates (e.g., temple burning) typically falls under Initiate Law.

Janette concluded by advising students to always examine cases carefully and not hesitate to refer cases to the appropriate authority (Caste head, Initiate, Commander) if jurisdiction lies elsewhere. She would provide handouts, including the class transcript, a dictionary, and a list of laws, for students to review before the next session.

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[13:03]  janette Inglewood: Tal everyone and welcome to the Legal Academy first class for Magistrates

[13:03]  janette Inglewood: i am Jan.....and i shall be Your tutor for the next 8 weeks

[13:04]  Torin Novo: Welcome Lady Jan

[13:05]  janette Inglewood: excuse me incoming...chuckles

[13:06]  janette Inglewood: right so lets start with a few bits of admin

[13:07]  janette Inglewood: we are immune from raids in here...so you can remove meters and weapons to reduce lag

[13:07]  Torin Novo whispers: Welcome back Lady Ariella.

[13:08]  janette Inglewood: you now see how the system works....i just call for tps 15 mins before the class

[13:08]  Corinne Elan nods

[13:09]  janette Inglewood: this is an 8 week course.....1 hour per class and a couple of pieces of written work

[13:09]  janette Inglewood: i like it to be a discursive class so please feel free to get involved

[13:10]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton) listen carefully without saying a word

[13:10]  Corinne Elan listens and nods

[13:10]  janette Inglewood: to ask a question....denote a raised hand with the @ symbol

[13:10]  Lady Alys (alys.brim) nods

[13:10]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): nods

[13:10]  Alys's translator: / Me nods

[13:10]  Wicked Vintner nods

[13:11]  janette Inglewood: i send out a script of each class....plus various handouts in the class group

[13:11]  janette Inglewood: is anyone NOT a member of the academy class group?

[13:12]  janette Inglewood: excellent

[13:12]  janette Inglewood: as you will tell from my numerous typos...i do not copy and paste these classes

[13:12]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): @

[13:12]  janette Inglewood: they are 100% live and interactive

[13:13]  janette Inglewood: Elena?

[13:13]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): but we can copy the class or not nesseccary (grr sorry bad english sometime)

[13:14]  janette Inglewood: you can...but i send out copies in the class group

[13:14]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): <ok

[13:14]  janette Inglewood: a little about me before we get going......

[13:15]  janette Inglewood: i have worked as a Lawyer....Magistrate and High Magistrate on sl Gor for over 2 years now

[13:15]  janette Inglewood: i have run these classes since taking over from my mentor for nearly 2 earth years

[13:16]  janette Inglewood: and there are over 50 ex students working across Gor in law or some related field

[13:16]  janette Inglewood: the qualification is a valuable one....and not awarded lightly

[13:17]  Corinne Elan nods

[13:17]  janette Inglewood: it has a certificate and plaque for qualifiers at the end

[13:17]  janette Inglewood: and may of the cities of Gor recognise it

[13:17]  janette Inglewood: *many

[13:18]  janette Inglewood: there is the same class run at 5pm slt....so if you miss this one...you may attend that one

[13:18]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): nods

[13:19]  janette Inglewood: finally...tomorrow at 1 pm slt....there is the advocates class....focussing on court rp and being a lawyer rather than a Magistrate

[13:19]  janette Inglewood: i think that covers all the info....any questions on that?

[13:20]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): no

[13:20]  Wicked Vintner: sounds pretty straight forward

[13:20]  Corinne Elan shakes her hear: no lady

[13:20]  janette Inglewood: excellent

[13:21]  janette Inglewood: let's consider the first topic then

[13:21]  janette Inglewood: and that is Jurisdiction

[13:22]  janette Inglewood: of couse we take all our guidance from the books as much as we can

[13:22]  janette Inglewood: what types of Law are mention by Norman in the books?

[13:22]  Thurstön (thurston.woodford): @

[13:22]  Wicked Vintner: Merchant

[13:22]  Wicked Vintner: ((oops))

[13:23]  Thurstön (thurston.woodford): ((laughs))

[13:23]  janette Inglewood: Thurston?

[13:23]  Thurstön (thurston.woodford): ummmm Merchant Law

[13:23]  janette Inglewood: hahaha correct

[13:23]  Torin Novo: @

[13:23]  janette Inglewood: 3 more

[13:23]  janette Inglewood: Torin?

[13:24]  Torin Novo: Initiate Law?

[13:24]  janette Inglewood: correct

[13:25]  Wicked Vintner: @

[13:25]  janette Inglewood: Wicked?

[13:25]  Wicked Vintner: civil government

[13:26]  janette Inglewood: yes...Norman calls it civil...city and minicipal law at various times....it is the same thing

[13:26]  janette Inglewood: ok one more

[13:27]  Torin Novo: @

[13:27]  janette Inglewood: the fourth...which is a sort of law for some....is Caste

[13:27]  Torin Novo: #

[13:27]  janette Inglewood: ah i beat you to it Torin

[13:27]  Corinne Elan smiles

[13:28]  janette Inglewood: so......Initiate law....the laws of the priest kings...solely dealing with religious matters....PK denial for example

[13:28]  janette Inglewood: City law.....covering any crimes within the city walls

[13:29]  janette Inglewood: merchant law covering any crimes outside of a city....plus things like weights and measures across Gor

[13:29]  Torin Novo: @

[13:29]  janette Inglewood: and Caste Law....Caste codes mainly...such as Warriors behaviour

[13:29]  janette Inglewood: Torin?

[13:30]  Torin Novo: When in the north where there is no caste, does it mean there is no jurisdiction of law?

[13:30]  janette Inglewood: things tend to be run by the villagers and High Jarls up there

[13:31]  Torin Novo nods. Thank you.

[13:31]  janette Inglewood: as City Magistrates we would have no jurisdiction unless invited to do so

[13:32]  janette Inglewood: now...it is crucila to understand when you have jurisdiction on a case and when you do not

[13:32]  janette Inglewood: *crucial

[13:32]  janette Inglewood: lets consider a few examples

[13:33]  janette Inglewood: an Initiate of Your City is attacked by mercs in a raid....who presides on that?

[13:33]  Wicked Vintner: @

[13:34]  janette Inglewood: Wicked?

[13:34]  Wicked Vintner: that would be a city law, I would think

[13:34]  janette Inglewood: no it would be Initiate Law......however if there was none to deal with it....it would fall upon the City

[13:35]  janette Inglewood: if the Initiate is capped...then of course we would have to

[13:35]  Wicked Vintner: @

[13:36]  janette Inglewood: how about...a Lady Physician who has not had children treats a wounded person who dies from the treatment?

[13:36]  janette Inglewood: sorry...Wicked?

[13:36]  Wicked Vintner: no worries, lets continue

[13:36]  janette Inglewood: alright....so anyone?

[13:37]  Wicked Vintner: @

[13:37]  janette Inglewood: Wicked?

[13:37]  Wicked Vintner: caste matter

[13:37]  janette Inglewood: yes indeed...a Caste matter

[13:37]  janette Inglewood: a Merchant of Your City is robbed whilst travelling to another City?

[13:37]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): @

[13:38]  janette Inglewood: Elena?

[13:38]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): That would be merchant law

[13:38]  janette Inglewood: it would indeed

[13:39]  janette Inglewood: a Merchant of another City is robbed in Your City?

[13:39]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): @

[13:39]  Wicked Vintner: @

[13:39]  janette Inglewood: Elena?

[13:39]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): city law?

[13:40]  janette Inglewood: yes the city law of the city they are in

[13:40]  janette Inglewood: namely your city

[13:40]  janette Inglewood: agree Wicked?

[13:40]  Wicked Vintner: yes

[13:41]  janette Inglewood: now whilst those are 4 straight forward examples....this subject can get quite muddy

[13:41]  janette Inglewood: and it is vital you are not coerced by others claiming jurisdiction...nor try to rule on a case that is not yours to rule on

[13:43]  janette Inglewood: so....how about this one

[13:44]  janette Inglewood: a Warrior collars a Free woman from another City.....no reason given and the City of the FW requests the Warrior be sent to them for trial

[13:44]  janette Inglewood: what would you say?

[13:44]  Wicked Vintner: @

[13:45]  janette Inglewood: Wicked?

[13:45]  Wicked Vintner: where did the collaring take place?

[13:45]  janette Inglewood: in our city...that of the Warrior

[13:45]  Keru Imako: @

[13:46]  janette Inglewood: Keru?

[13:46]  Keru Imako: there is always a reason for and action even if not stated

[13:46]  Corinne Elan nods

[13:46]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): @

[13:46]  janette Inglewood: maybe, but who should be ruling on it?

[13:46]  janette Inglewood: Elena?

[13:46]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): logically the trial should be taken in the city where she got collar no?

[13:47]  Keru Imako: @

[13:47]  Torin Novo: @

[13:47]  janette Inglewood: yes correct....whether it is a trial or not...the jurisdiction is of the city where the crime occoursed

[13:47]  janette Inglewood: Keru?

[13:47]  Torin Novo: #

[13:47]  Keru Imako: there should be a invite sent to the offened city to off they sit in on the trail at the city where it happenede

[13:48]  janette Inglewood: yes i agree...i might well invite them to see justice is carried out

[13:48]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): nods

[13:48]  janette Inglewood: the point is...if a crime occours in your city...it is your city's laws that apply

[13:49]  janette Inglewood: you need to check...is it an Initiate matter...is it a caste matter

[13:50]  janette Inglewood: most city laws tend to comply with merchant laws anyway...and we shall look at that more another time

[13:50]  janette Inglewood: but always examine the case and decide to whom the jurisdiction apllies

[13:51]  janette Inglewood: and dont be afraid to refer the case if you think it should be dealt with by someone else

[13:52]  janette Inglewood: Caste head....Initiate.......Commander...whatever

[13:52]  janette Inglewood: any questions about jurisdiction?

[13:52]  Wicked Vintner: @

[13:52]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): shake her head

[13:52]  janette Inglewood: Wicked?

[13:53]  Wicked Vintner: back to that initiate and the merc...... I dont know too much about Initiate law, but can you explain why that case would not be city law?

[13:53]  Wicked Vintner: I mean, a citizen was attacked

[13:54]  janette Inglewood: Iniates would see any attack on one of them as an attack on the Caste itself...and would see it as a religious matter

[13:54]  Wicked Vintner: ah, I see

[13:54]  janette Inglewood: they may well conclude that it was merely a random attack and then hand the case back to you

[13:55]  janette Inglewood: but first call would be theirs as potential crimes against the PK's

[13:56]  janette Inglewood: the books do mention the conflict that can occour between us and Initiates

[13:56]  Thurstön (thurston.woodford): @

[13:56]  Wicked Vintner grins

[13:56]  janette Inglewood: and i had a case which i helped with in another City

[13:56]  janette Inglewood: the Initiates were being ridiculous

[13:57]  Wicked Vintner: of course

[13:57]  janette Inglewood: wanted to just kill a Man for basically nothing....and i did oppose this

[13:57]  janette Inglewood: Thurston?

[13:57]  Thurstön (thurston.woodford): If it was a potential crime against the PK's would it strictly be Initiate law?

[13:57]  janette Inglewood: yes it would

[13:58]  janette Inglewood: of course....on SL.....it can be hard to get them to act

[13:58]  janette Inglewood: temple burning for example...should really be Initiate law

[13:58]  janette Inglewood: but it ends up being dealt with by the City more often than not

[13:59]  janette Inglewood: any more questions?

[13:59]  Corinne Elan shakes her head

[13:59]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): shake her head

[13:59]  Wicked Vintner: none from me

[13:59]  janette Inglewood: right then...well i hope you have enjoyed this first discussion

[13:59]  Lady Alys (alys.brim): none for me

[13:59]  Alys's translator: ninth for me

[14:00]  Wicked Vintner: I have indeed

[14:00]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): nods

[14:00]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): same here

[14:00]  janette Inglewood: i shall send out a few hand outs in the group in a while

[14:00]  Corinne Elan smiles and nods

[14:00]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): smiles

[14:00]  janette Inglewood: so please check for them

[14:00]  Lady Alys (alys.brim): thanks

[14:00]  Corinne Elan: thank yu

[14:00]  Alys's translator: thanks

[14:00]  ℰlena Ðreamscape (wanaki.anton): thank you lady

[14:00]  janette Inglewood: the trranscript...a dictionary and a list of laws

[14:01]  Thurstön (thurston.woodford): Thank you Lady Janette

[14:01]  Ariella Farshore: Thank you Lady Janette

[14:01]  janette Inglewood: be well until next time....i hope to see you all same time same place next week....or tomorrow for advocates class

[14:01]  Wicked Vintner: tomorrow it is, lady

[14:01]  Corinne Elan smiles. be well and thank you

[14:01]  janette Inglewood: excellent....thank You and be well everyone