2010-12-13 22:16:36 note card
Participants:
Janette Inglewood: High Magistrate of Olni, Chief Magistrate of the Legal Academy of Gor, and Moderator of Olni and the Blue Caste of Gor (Teacher)
Sonja Zuta
Georgia Beorn
Claudette Debruyere
Ghostwalker Mortensen
Frederique Restless
Syd Cicerone
Jakis Babcock (joined later in the conversation)
Raelyn Wytchwood (joined later in the conversation, left early)
Harper Frostwych (joined later in the conversation)
Jessie Sinister (joined later in the conversation)
Konner Aura (joined later in the conversation)
Tommy273 Beresford (joined late)
Meeting Summary:
Janette Inglewood welcomed participants to an 8-week course on the role of a Magistrate in Olni, emphasizing that the classroom is a "safe zone." She introduced herself as the Chief Magistrate of the Legal Academy of Gor and High Magistrate of Olni, stating her teaching style focuses on shared learning rather than lecturing. She outlined the course content, which includes OOC/IC issues, sentencing, Gor and SL (Second Life) interactions, trials, investigating, laws, jurisdiction, merchant law, and city law. She also mentioned two homework assignments and a final quiz.
The class then delved into the key subject of jurisdiction and the four types of law on Gor: Merchant, City (Civil), Initiate, and Caste Law. Through a series of hypothetical scenarios (e.g., a Warrior stabbing another Warrior, a stolen slave, a Free Woman being illegally collared, an assault on an Initiate), Janette guided the participants in identifying the appropriate jurisdiction. She stressed the importance of carefully assessing each case to determine which law applies and if it's within the Magistrate's jurisdiction, or if it should be referred to a Caste leader, the City's administration, or the Ubar. The discussion also touched on the concept of appeals and the hierarchical structure of legal authority within a Gorean city. Janette also mentioned that while juries are referenced in the books, she does not personally use them in her trials. The class concluded after an hour, with Janette promising to send out the log and handouts, and inviting participants to the Advocates class the following day.
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[13:09] janette Inglewood: Tal everyone and welcome to Olni
[13:09] Sonja Zuta smmles
[13:10] Georgia Beorn: tallies
[13:10] Claudette Debruyere: Thank you
[13:10] janette Inglewood: this is an 8 week course to hopefully learn abd discuss the role of Magistrate
[13:10] janette Inglewood: this classroom is a safezone....so feel free to remove metes
[13:11] janette Inglewood: firstly a little about me
[13:11] janette Inglewood: im chief Magistrate of the legal academy of gor
[13:11] janette Inglewood: High Magistrate of Olni
[13:12] janette Inglewood: and a moderator of Olni and the Blue Caste of Gor
[13:12] janette Inglewood: now, it is not my style to lecture on the law
[13:13] janette Inglewood: more...that we share and learn together...and try to be as btb as is possible
[13:14] janette Inglewood: to ask a question....use @ as a hand raised symbol
[13:14] janette Inglewood: now...things we will cover
[13:14] janette Inglewood: ooc/ic.........sentencing........Gor and sl
[13:15] Ghostwalker Mortensen: @ will there written material we can take with us?
[13:15] janette Inglewood: trials........investigating
[13:15] janette Inglewood: yes....all handouts and scripts of the class will be issued through the class group
[13:15] Ghostwalker Mortensen: thank you
[13:16] janette Inglewood: if you arent in that group please im me....AFTER..... the class
[13:16] Frederique Restless tries still to keep up with her papers and featherpencil
[13:16] janette Inglewood: for trials and advocacy..there is a class same time tomorrow
[13:17] janette Inglewood: also on this course...there are 2 pieces of homework
[13:17] Claudette Debruyere: @ Is that open for anyone too?
[13:17] janette Inglewood: and a quiz at the end
[13:17] janette Inglewood: yes it is
[13:17] Claudette Debruyere: Thank you
[13:18] janette Inglewood: other things to cover....the laws themselves.....jurisdiction....merchant law.......and city law
[13:19] janette Inglewood: if you cant attend.a class..please try to let me know in advance
[13:19] janette Inglewood: and we will discuss if we break for christmas...beforehand
[13:19] janette Inglewood: any questions about any of that?
[13:19] Syd Cicerone: nay
[13:20] Claudette Debruyere: @ How long do the classes normally run?
[13:20] Ghostwalker Mortensen: @ I will be absent for the holidays (USA)
[13:20] janette Inglewood: 1 hour
[13:20] Georgia Beorn shakes her head
[13:20] Sonja Zuta smiles
[13:20] janette Inglewood: i had a big crash so we are a bit late....but normally it is strictly 1-2
[13:21] Syd Cicerone kicks Lady Jan's computer....;p
[13:21] janette Inglewood: in the advocates class....where we roleplay trials...we can overrun
[13:21] janette Inglewood: right....enough housekeeping....lets get started
[13:22] janette Inglewood: Jurisidiction
[13:22] janette Inglewood: now this is a key subject
[13:23] janette Inglewood: what types of Law are there on Gor?
[13:23] Ghostwalker Mortensen: @Merchant and civil?
[13:23] Claudette Debruyere: @ Merchant and civil?
[13:23] Syd Cicerone: @ city law...Merchant Law
[13:23] Harper Frostwych: @ Merchant and Civil
[13:23] janette Inglewood: yes, thats 2
[13:23] janette Inglewood: what else?
[13:23] Jakis Babcock: Initate
[13:23] Raelyn Wytchwood: @Merchant, city and Caste
[13:23] Jakis Babcock: Caste Codes
[13:23] janette Inglewood: yes
[13:23] Ghostwalker Mortensen: There are special ones for special cases yes?
[13:24] janette Inglewood: Merchant...City...Inititiate and Caste
[13:24] Ghostwalker Mortensen: @cast codes are not laws but rather made for that caste only by its members?
[13:24] janette Inglewood: Caste may not be a law as such....but in effect it is
[13:25] janette Inglewood: and you will see why
[13:25] Ghostwalker Mortensen: @ I am not bound by say red caste rules..yes?
[13:25] janette Inglewood: now...for most of us, we are city Magistrates and we operate under the laws of our city
[13:25] janette Inglewood: they come first
[13:26] janette Inglewood: beyond the city walls...merchant law applies
[13:26] janette Inglewood: of course some of those apply in a city too
[13:27] janette Inglewood: but there are cases where actually they are caste issues
[13:27] janette Inglewood: for example...i did a trial of a Physician....accused of deserting the injured
[13:27] janette Inglewood: the City was trying to call this a city offence
[13:28] Ghostwalker Mortensen: @ that is a caste law
[13:28] janette Inglewood: but there is no law that covers it
[13:28] janette Inglewood: so what i did was refer it to Caste
[13:28] janette Inglewood: the same can happen with Warriors for example
[13:29] janette Inglewood: so....in effect...Caste does count as a legal option open to us
[13:29] janette Inglewood: make sense?
[13:29] Syd Cicerone: @
[13:29] Sonja Zuta inclcines her head gently to the High magisttrae
[13:29] janette Inglewood: it would be wrong for us to ty to rule on issues like that
[13:30] janette Inglewood: yes Syd?
[13:30] Syd Cicerone: so if the Physician was in the wrong...who's city determines punishment...his or the offended city
[13:30] Claudette Debruyere: @ The Head of the Caste?
[13:30] janette Inglewood: the Csaste heads of their City
[13:30] Ghostwalker Mortensen: listnes
[13:30] Syd Cicerone: k
[13:31] janette Inglewood: they may even choose to refer that to a wider Caste body....but that is up to them
[13:32] janette Inglewood: then of course...there is Initiate law
[13:32] janette Inglewood: now this tends to be for directly related items....PK denial for example
[13:33] janette Inglewood: but dont try to rule on things that are not your jurisdiction....always check and weigh it up first
[13:34] janette Inglewood: lets try a few////////which of the four options apply to the following
[13:34] janette Inglewood: a Warrior insults another Warrior and then stabs Him in the back?
[13:34] Jessie Sinister: @
[13:35] Harper Frostwych: @ Caste
[13:35] janette Inglewood: Jessie?
[13:35] Ghostwalker Mortensen: @civil
[13:35] Claudette Debruyere: @ That's murder
[13:35] Syd Cicerone: caste, city
[13:35] janette Inglewood: He doesnt die
[13:35] Jessie Sinister: City Law? While it was between 2 Warriors, it is an act of murder, under the jurisdiction of the City itself
[13:35] Konner Aura: @caste
[13:35] Claudette Debruyere: @ Civil law
[13:36] Jessie Sinister: Ahh, then, I would refer it to the Caste, as they would have applicable guidelines for that
[13:36] Jessie Sinister: rather, to Caste Law
[13:36] janette Inglewood: well..it is Caste......they may then make it civil
[13:36] Ghostwalker Mortensen: @
[13:36] Claudette Debruyere: @ Caste laws, to their ranking officer
[13:36] janette Inglewood: of course it depends on the city's laws themselves
[13:36] janette Inglewood: yes
[13:37] Claudette Debruyere: @ Which one?
[13:37] Claudette Debruyere: @ Caste?
[13:37] janette Inglewood: ok.... a slaves is stolen out on the highway....and found to be held by a wandering group of mercs?
[13:37] Ghostwalker Mortensen: If it is between two people no matter the caste it would be a civil law..there is nothing in the Red caste code that prohinits that
[13:38] Harper Frostwych: @ Merchant
[13:38] janette Inglewood: correct
[13:39] janette Inglewood: a FW is facestipped and collared by a scribe in a city....no reason given nor a Magistrate consulted?
[13:39] Claudette Debruyere: @ I'm lost. What question are we on now?
[13:39] Raelyn Wytchwood: @city
[13:39] Harper Frostwych: @ City
[13:39] Claudette Debruyere: @ What did you say correct to Lady Janette?
[13:39] janette Inglewood: correct
[13:39] janette Inglewood: case 1 Caste
[13:39] janette Inglewood: Case 2 merchant
[13:39] Claudette Debruyere: Alright
[13:39] janette Inglewood: case 3 City
[13:40] janette Inglewood: someone assaults an Initiate in a City
[13:40] Ghostwalker Mortensen: sits and waits
[13:40] Syd Cicerone: Initiate, city
[13:40] Harper Frostwych: @ Initiate
[13:40] janette Inglewood: yes....Initiate
[13:41] janette Inglewood: so....using those simple examples....do You see the point i am making?
[13:41] Georgia Beorn nods
[13:41] Ghostwalker Mortensen: @yes things ca go many ways
[13:41] janette Inglewood: do not judge on things that are not your jurisdiction
[13:41] Syd Cicerone: that sometimes punishment needs to be delegated
[13:42] janette Inglewood: exactly
[13:42] Claudette Debruyere: @ Ah
[13:42] janette Inglewood: study the case and be clear about e=who should be dealing with it
[13:43] janette Inglewood: any questions/thoughts to share?
[13:43] Raelyn Wytchwood: @
[13:43] Sonja Zuta smiles
[13:43] Jessie Sinister: @
[13:44] janette Inglewood: Raelyn?
[13:44] Raelyn Wytchwood: Juries. I've seen so many trial with them, though I do not believe they existed on Gor. I thought the Magistrate had the final word on ruling...true or false?
[13:44] Ghostwalker Mortensen: @if a Magistrate determines a case should be handle by say merchant law and another Magistrate by civil how is that handled?
[13:45] janette Inglewood: the only refs to juries by the books are about bribing them...so we know they existed....however i do not use them
[13:45] janette Inglewood: Jessie?
[13:45] Jessie Sinister: In the case of the Warriors, as stated, there isn't really anything specific to Caste codes on this, so, can the Caste, or, High Council of the City refer it to the Magistrate as a City case?
[13:46] janette Inglewood: yes...exactly....they can refer it back
[13:46] Jessie Sinister: ty
[13:46] Claudette Debruyere: @
[13:46] janette Inglewood: Ghost's question......well, in Olni i am High Magistrate so i would decide
[13:47] janette Inglewood: chances are it is City
[13:47] Ghostwalker Mortensen: ok thanks
[13:47] janette Inglewood: Claudette?
[13:47] Jessie Sinister: @
[13:47] Claudette Debruyere: I thought Caste's went to a Magistrate when they couldn't mediate their own decisions. Like with the Warriors, they usually handle their own business
[13:48] janette Inglewood: not if they have no codes that cover it....they can choose to rule it as a civil matter
[13:48] Claudette Debruyere: Thank you
[13:48] Ghostwalker Mortensen: @
[13:48] Raelyn Wytchwood: @
[13:48] janette Inglewood: Jessie?
[13:48] Jessie Sinister: Sorry...same situation (and has nothing to do with me being Scarlet) if the Caste leader says, "It's between them" can the High Council still procede with some form of action?
[13:49] Jessie Sinister: Just trying to understand the Jurisdictional Authority line
[13:49] janette Inglewood: yes....the council would normally refer it back to the original Magistrate
[13:49] Jessie Sinister: ty
[13:49] Claudette Debruyere: @
[13:50] janette Inglewood: say i sent it to Marcc......the Commander...He might refer it to the Ubar...who would send it back to me
[13:50] janette Inglewood: Ghost?
[13:50] Jessie Sinister: ok
[13:51] Ghostwalker Mortensen: If there is more than one Magistratein a city ones tries the case as civil and the other person refer it to another jurisdiction?
[13:51] Ghostwalker Mortensen: is this possible?
[13:51] janette Inglewood: you mean if they disagree?
[13:52] Ghostwalker Mortensen: yes
[13:52] janette Inglewood: well yes in theory......in the case of my City...i would have to decide
[13:53] janette Inglewood: id talk to them and get both sides...then decide
[13:53] Syd Cicerone: it would go to HoC of the Blues from that city to decide correct?
[13:53] Ghostwalker Mortensen: so they both disagree and the person has been tried once you decide what happens next?
[13:53] janette Inglewood: hmmm well it depends on how the structure is set up
[13:53] janette Inglewood: yes....in Olni...i work for the Ubar...not the City
[13:53] Ghostwalker Mortensen: Is there a standard set up to go by?
[13:54] janette Inglewood: therefore i am independent of Caste
[13:54] janette Inglewood: that would be the normal system
[13:54] janette Inglewood: there is a head of the legal dept....be it a High Magistrate, High Scribe...Ubar...whoever is designated
[13:54] Raelyn Wytchwood: Excuse me, I must log for now but I enjoyed the class and wish I could stay til the end.
[13:55] janette Inglewood: be well Raelynn
[13:55] Ghostwalker Mortensen: Safe travels
[13:55] Raelyn Wytchwood: Be well all
[13:55] Jessie Sinister: Be Well
[13:55] Tommy273 Beresford: be well
[13:55] Raelyn Wytchwood: Kara, go to the house mine
[13:55] janette Inglewood: i think Claudette had the next question
[13:55] Sonja Zuta smiiles
[13:55] Sonja Zuta: thank you
[13:56] Frederique Restless: well wishes Mistress...she whispers loud enough for her to hear..if she still was here
[13:56] Claudette Debruyere: @ I am trying to understand the levels of management. Between two people if it is not resolved, they go to their Caste leaders, if still not resolved, they go to the magistrate, if not satisfied, they go to the highest person in the city.
[13:57] janette Inglewood: it does show how important is is that this layed out by a City
[13:57] Claudette Debruyere: The magistrate can go 'Well, this isn't for a magistrate, go back to your Caste leader' right?
[13:57] janette Inglewood: yes Claudette
[13:57] janette Inglewood: yes
[13:57] Claudette Debruyere: Alright, I'm starting to understand.
[13:57] Claudette Debruyere: @
[13:58] janette Inglewood: its the same as an appeal really..........it works its way upwards
[13:58] janette Inglewood: yes Claudette?
[13:58] Claudette Debruyere: How do you know what's ~not~ a magistrate issue and refer it back?
[13:58] janette Inglewood: well.....if it is not covered by the ic laws of the City basically
[13:59] janette Inglewood: then.......if its not a Caste issue either.....it will have to go to the Admin/Ubar to be solved
[13:59] Claudette Debruyere: I see
[14:00] janette Inglewood: i will talk about ooc/ic another time...but the most common examples are when the case is not wholly ic
[14:00] Claudette Debruyere: listens
[14:01] janette Inglewood: as we go through the course...this is something we will refer to often.....so hopefully we will get used to the concept
[14:01] Claudette Debruyere: smiles and nods
[14:02] janette Inglewood: now then...time defeats us
[14:02] Claudette Debruyere: Thank you Lady Janette
[14:02] janette Inglewood: i will send out the log of this discussion in the group...as well as a few handouts...shortly
[14:02] Syd Cicerone smiles and stretches
[14:02] Syd Cicerone: Thank you =)
[14:02] Jessie Sinister: ty, Lady
[14:02] Ghostwalker Mortensen: Thank you so much for your time
[14:02] janette Inglewood: if you are not in the class group..please im me and i will add you
[14:02] Claudette Debruyere: That was..........interesting
[14:03] Sonja Zuta: thank you yes it ws very interesting
[14:03] Georgia Beorn: thank you Lady Jan
[14:03] Tommy273 Beresford: Thank you lady
[14:03] Harper Frostwych: Thank you
[14:03] janette Inglewood: i hope that was fun....and ill see you same time next week....or for the advocates class tomorrow
[14:03] Georgia Beorn: smiles
[14:03] Georgia Beorn: tomorrow for me
[14:03] Jessie Sinister: very interesting, Jan
[14:03] janette Inglewood: thank You all for your input and for listening and be well
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