Mag class 1....5pm.....dec 13th

 2010-12-14 02:10:33 note card

Participants:

• Janette Inglewood: High Magistrate of Olni, Chief Magistrate of the Legal Academy of Gor, Moderator of Olni and the Blue Caste of Gor (Teacher)

• Dezire Sciarri

• Sherman Easterwood

• Leshil Jierdon

• Candaris Randt

• Kati Evans

• JavanTrust (joined late)

Meeting Summary:

Janette Inglewood, despite the late hour for her, conducted an introductory class on the Gorean legal system. She set the classroom as a "safe zone" for open discussion and outlined the 8-hour curriculum which includes jurisdiction, sentencing, trials, investigation, OOC/IC issues, daily tasks, two coursework assignments, and a mock trial.

The core of this session focused on jurisdiction and the types of law on Gor: Merchant Law, Civil Law (City Law), Initiate Law, and Caste Law. Through various hypothetical scenarios (physician's misdiagnosis, highway robbery, denying Priest-Kings, Homestone theft), Janette guided the participants in identifying which laws would apply. She stressed the importance of understanding jurisdiction and knowing the laws of the city one is in, noting that Merchant Laws often serve as a standard across Gorean settlements.

They also briefly discussed the hierarchy and appeals processes within the Gorean legal system, with Janette explaining Olni's clear structure where Magistrate rulings appeal to her, and her rulings appeal to the Ubar.

The class members thanked Janette, and she confirmed that the session's script would be shared, and they would discuss a potential Christmas break at the next meeting.

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[17:09] janette Inglewood: the class room is a safe zone...so feel free to remove meters

[17:10] janette Inglewood: Tal everyone...and welcome to Olni

[17:10] Dezire Sciarri: thank you

[17:10] Sherman Easterwood: Thank you

[17:10] Leshil Jierdon: Good to see you again Lady Jan, greetings free.

[17:10] Candaris Randt: Thank you, Tal everyone.

[17:10] janette Inglewood: Yes and You Leshil

[17:11] Dezire Sciarri: Greetings Everyone

[17:11] Sherman Easterwood: Tal everyone

[17:11] janette Inglewood: now this is the first time ive run a class at this hour...its 1 am for me...so forgive me if i am a little slow....chuckles

[17:11] janette Inglewood: i was going to have someone else run it....but..umm...well im a perfectionist

[17:12] Leshil Jierdon: We thank you so much for this chance Lady Jan

[17:12] Candaris Randt: Yes, indeed, thank you.

[17:12] Sherman Easterwood: I thank you for taking the time Lady

[17:12] janette Inglewood: my pleasure

[17:12] janette Inglewood: now firstly...about me

[17:12] janette Inglewood: i am High Magistrate of Olni

[17:13] janette Inglewood: Chief Magistrate of the the legal academy of Gor and Moderator of Olni and the Blue Caste of Gor

[17:13] janette Inglewood: i trained 2 years ago under anzhela dyrssen

[17:14] janette Inglewood: and have been working and running these classes ever since

[17:14] janette Inglewood: the aim is not to stand here and lecture you on what is right and wrong...but to explore together the workings of the gorean legal system

[17:14] janette Inglewood: are you all in the class group?

[17:15] Leshil Jierdon: Yes

[17:15] Candaris Randt: Yes

[17:15] Sherman Easterwood: Yes

[17:15] Leshil Jierdon: And she will involve you all, it is fun though

[17:15] Dezire Sciarri: I am now

[17:15] janette Inglewood: so hopefully you received the things i sent out earlier

[17:16] janette Inglewood: the dictionary , law card and script of the earlier class

[17:16] Leshil Jierdon: Actually no, I haven't received any notices in game that came in my emails

[17:16] Leshil Jierdon: But I've got them from before.

[17:16] janette Inglewood: good...or scroll into notices and get them

[17:17] janette Inglewood: there were 15 in the 1pm class

[17:17] janette Inglewood: this feels nicely intimate

[17:17] Dezire Sciarri *smiles

[17:18] janette Inglewood: over the 8 1 hour sessions we shall cover.......

[17:18] janette Inglewood: Jurisdiction, sentencing, trials.......

[17:18] Leshil Jierdon: Yes, much easier to learn, cause we're all gonna be part of each mock trial, no ducking them, haha

[17:19] janette Inglewood: investigating, ooc/ic,,,,,and the day to day tasks we all face

[17:19] janette Inglewood: there are 2 pieces of coursework to do...and yes...one mock trial

[17:20] janette Inglewood: for more trials, there is the advocates course at 1 pm tomorrow...but i cant stretch to a 5pm for that

[17:20] janette Inglewood: we could add a second at the end if we all want to

[17:20] janette Inglewood: if there is a raid...we are ooc by the way

[17:21] Leshil Jierdon: What about doing the magistrate this time slot this class session and then the advocates next term?

[17:21] janette Inglewood: possibly yes

[17:21] Candaris Randt: I would love to take the advocates 1 pm is just 1 hour to early for me, sadly

[17:22] janette Inglewood: if you have a question at any time please use @...to show me you wish to speak....sort of a hand up i suppose

[17:22] janette Inglewood: yes, well then maybe we can try that

[17:22] janette Inglewood: but we will do a trial on this course anyway

[17:22] Leshil Jierdon: Its fun, did it once, half of it anyway.

[17:23] janette Inglewood: any questions on anything so far?

[17:23] Sherman Easterwood: No questions here Lady

[17:23] janette Inglewood: right then.....so lets get started

[17:24] janette Inglewood: i know Kati is an experienced Magistrate already...anyone else already woring in the role?

[17:24] janette Inglewood: *k

[17:24] Leshil Jierdon: @

[17:24] Leshil Jierdon: Amongst other roles.

[17:24] janette Inglewood: Leshil?

[17:25] janette Inglewood: yes....always a jack of all trades

[17:25] Leshil Jierdon: Oh was just raising my hand to say I am.

[17:25] janette Inglewood: so...the first subject to consider......jurisdiction

[17:26] janette Inglewood: what types of law are there on Gor?

[17:26] Leshil Jierdon: @

[17:26] janette Inglewood: Leshil

[17:26] Leshil Jierdon: Merchant law, civil law, and Linden Law

[17:27] janette Inglewood: well yes Linden law...true enough

[17:27] janette Inglewood: ok 2 more

[17:27] Sherman Easterwood: @

[17:27] janette Inglewood: Sherman?

[17:27] Sherman Easterwood: Initiate

[17:27] janette Inglewood: yes

[17:28] Sherman Easterwood: hmmm city

[17:28] janette Inglewood: the other, is Caste

[17:28] janette Inglewood: not totally law...but near enough

[17:28] janette Inglewood: city and civil is the same thing

[17:28] Sherman Easterwood: nods

[17:29] janette Inglewood: Caste codes can amount to law in certain cases

[17:29] janette Inglewood: anyone have any obvious examples?

[17:30] Leshil Jierdon: @

[17:30] Leshil Jierdon: Warrior's Code of Honor

[17:30] janette Inglewood: Leshil?

[17:30] janette Inglewood: yes.........to some degree

[17:30] janette Inglewood: and something like a green caste having 2 children

[17:31] Leshil Jierdon: yes

[17:31] Dezire Sciarri: ah yes

[17:31] janette Inglewood: so when we weigh up jurisdiction we need to consider these

[17:32] janette Inglewood: now, im going to exclude linden law for now...but when we discuss ooc/ic issues, we shall cover it then

[17:32] janette Inglewood: such things as disclosing alts and ims come into play

[17:33] janette Inglewood: but lets stick to the 4 gorean ones for now

[17:33] janette Inglewood: now lets say.....a physician apprentice misdiagnoses a patient who dies

[17:34] janette Inglewood: what law would apply?

[17:34] Candaris Randt: @

[17:34] janette Inglewood: Candaris?

[17:34] Candaris Randt: Caste

[17:35] Leshil Jierdon: @

[17:35] Dezire Sciarri: @

[17:35] janette Inglewood: yes Caste...maybe they were trained badly...or shouldnt have been dealing with it

[17:35] janette Inglewood: Leshil?

[17:35] Leshil Jierdon: Caste law, possible civil law too, Initiate if the treatment was for say Darkosis

[17:35] janette Inglewood: could do...yes

[17:35] janette Inglewood: Dezire?

[17:36] Dezire Sciarri: I would have said, if he/she killed a Free who is not in the green caste, it would also fall under the civil law, but it has been mentioned already, no?

[17:36] janette Inglewood: yes....but in the first instance i would involve the caste

[17:37] Dezire Sciarri: @

[17:37] janette Inglewood: another.........a thief robs a caravan on the highway.....and the victims run to Your city

[17:37] janette Inglewood: sorry...Dzire?

[17:38] Dezire Sciarri: if it is a slave, would it fall under property?

[17:38] janette Inglewood: well the issue is the treatment in that case....so it makes little difference really

[17:38] Dezire Sciarri: thank you

[17:39] janette Inglewood: but yes the Owner could demand a civil suit in theory

[17:39] janette Inglewood: so the second example?

[17:39] Sherman Easterwood: @

[17:39] janette Inglewood: Sherman

[17:40] Sherman Easterwood: since the caravan is outside the city, civil law would not apply unless the city was strong enough to enforce it...If the canavan was a Merchant canavan then Merchant law would apply, I think.

[17:40] janette Inglewood: correct

[17:40] janette Inglewood: it happened beyond the city....so merchant law applies

[17:41] janette Inglewood: next one

[17:41] Leshil Jierdon: @

[17:41] janette Inglewood: Leshil?

[17:41] Leshil Jierdon: The city's laws might apply though to the victims treatment upon entering the city though.

[17:41] janette Inglewood: yes...but not to the crime itself

[17:41] Leshil Jierdon: True

[17:42] janette Inglewood: a scribe of your city.....denies the existence of the priest kings

[17:42] Leshil Jierdon: @

[17:42] janette Inglewood: Leshil

[17:43] Leshil Jierdon: Initiate law, caste law, and civil law depending on the city, many don't recognize the priest kings either.

[17:43] janette Inglewood: yes....exactly

[17:44] janette Inglewood: if it was in Ironhall...not a crime

[17:44] janette Inglewood: in Olni...Initiate Law

[17:44] janette Inglewood: may also be a Caste issue

[17:44] Leshil Jierdon: In Anango, not a crime either

[17:44] janette Inglewood: and if it were stirring up riots say...then city law

[17:45] Sherman Easterwood: @

[17:45] janette Inglewood: Sherman?

[17:46] Sherman Easterwood: I know cities write there own laws but are there "standard" laws that if not specially mentioned in the city laws that take presidence if no law exist in the city.

[17:46] Leshil Jierdon: @

[17:46] janette Inglewood: yes very much so...essentially merchant laws....ideally btb

[17:47] janette Inglewood: that list i gave out....written by Luther...are all lifted directly from the books

[17:47] Sherman Easterwood: nods

[17:47] Sherman Easterwood: thank you

[17:47] janette Inglewood: Leshil?

[17:47] Leshil Jierdon: That's what I was gonna say, merchant also applies outside of all city walls. So it would be the same.

[17:48] janette Inglewood: yes it would

[17:48] janette Inglewood: and it is rare to contradict them directly in most gorean settlements

[17:48] janette Inglewood: i wrote the laws of Olni...and referred to them very strictly

[17:49] janette Inglewood: we shall learn later of the times when they have to be tampered with...due to sl

[17:49] janette Inglewood: right...last example....someone steals your Homestone

[17:50] Leshil Jierdon: THen they die!

[17:50] Leshil Jierdon: Sorry

[17:50] Dezire Sciarri: @

[17:50] janette Inglewood: indeed...under what law?

[17:50] janette Inglewood: Dezire?

[17:51] JavanTrust: @

[17:51] Dezire Sciarri: well, I would throw the book at him and feed him to the sleens.. laughs..

[17:51] janette Inglewood: yes if caught

[17:51] janette Inglewood: Javan....waves

[17:51] Dezire Sciarri: city law

[17:52] JavanTrust: If someone attempts to steal your land that would be punishable under Captiial punishment

[17:52] janette Inglewood: yes....a crime against the homestone...city law...usually toture and impalement

[17:53] janette Inglewood: twice if possible

[17:53] janette Inglewood laughs

[17:53] Leshil Jierdon: at least

[17:53] janette Inglewood: so..You see...one must always consider jurisdiction...in every crime

[17:54] Leshil Jierdon nods

[17:54] janette Inglewood: any questions?

[17:54] Leshil Jierdon: @

[17:54] janette Inglewood: Leshil

[17:55] Leshil Jierdon: It might be important to say that when a crime is committed in one city, the laws and customs of another should be considered, but that those things alone may not garner forgiveness for the offense. In other words, ignorance is no excuse.

[17:55] janette Inglewood: thats very true....always know the laws of the City You are in

[17:56] janette Inglewood: i had questions earlier about hierarchy

[17:56] janette Inglewood: for example...you refer a matter to caste...they refer it back

[17:56] janette Inglewood: or indeed appeals

[17:56] janette Inglewood: this can vary from city to city

[17:57] janette Inglewood: Olni is very clear

[17:57] janette Inglewood: if Magistrate rules and an appeal is made...it comes to me

[17:57] Kati Evans nods

[17:57] janette Inglewood: if i rule and am appealded against...it goes to the Ubar

[17:57] janette Inglewood: only i can try Caste leaders and the Ubar

[17:58] janette Inglewood: and i dont work for the City...i work for the Ubar

[17:58] janette Inglewood: so..i cannot be overruled by anyone but Him

[17:58] Leshil Jierdon: AYe, same, well I ma kind of the Administrator of my little city so yeah, haha

[17:58] janette Inglewood: this does vary......some High scribes really interfere

[17:58] janette Inglewood: i hate that

[17:59] Sherman Easterwood: @

[17:59] janette Inglewood: so be clear about the administration in your city

[17:59] janette Inglewood: Sherman?

[18:00] Sherman Easterwood: You just answered it, I was going to ask if the appeals processes needs to be clearly splelled out in the city law.

[18:00] janette Inglewood: i think it should...yes

[18:01] janette Inglewood: there is a case right now in Talmont that has hit this problem

[18:01] janette Inglewood: i was trying to read it earlier...but with noclear policy..its a minefield

[18:02] Leshil Jierdon: @

[18:02] janette Inglewood: right well...lets close there......

[18:02] janette Inglewood: Leshil?

[18:02] Leshil Jierdon: Which Talmont?

[18:02] Leshil Jierdon: The one run by Lady Kier?

[18:02] janette Inglewood: yes there are 2 arent there...umm..the bigger one i think

[18:02] janette Inglewood: umm....no....

[18:03] Leshil Jierdon: Ok, whew

[18:03] janette Inglewood: Rik Baar is high scribe

[18:03] janette Inglewood: whichever one that is

[18:03] Leshil Jierdon: That's the other Talmont, whew

[18:04] janette Inglewood smiles

[18:04] janette Inglewood: right then...lets close for this week

[18:04] janette Inglewood: ill send out this script in the group

[18:04] Leshil Jierdon nods

[18:04] janette Inglewood: thank You all for listening and joining in

[18:04] Sherman Easterwood: Thank you

[18:05] Sherman Easterwood: @

[18:05] Candaris Randt: Thank you

[18:05] Kati Evans: Thank you

[18:05] janette Inglewood: and we shall discuss together whether we break for christmas next time

[18:05] Dezire Sciarri: Thank you Lady Janette

[18:05] janette Inglewood: Sherman?

[18:05] Sherman Easterwood: will there be assignments later in the class?

[18:05] janette Inglewood: yes...2

[18:05] Sherman Easterwood: nods

[18:06] janette Inglewood: so...same time same place next week

[18:06] janette Inglewood: be well all and thank You

[18:06] Leshil Jierdon: Thanks lady Jan,

[18:06] Sherman Easterwood: See you then and thank you again

[18:06] Dezire Sciarri: yes, I hope you sleep well and sorry we keep you up so late

[18:06] Leshil Jierdon: Be well all

[18:06] Leshil Jierdon: The Isle calls

[18:06] janette Inglewood: no problem...chuckles

[18:06] Sherman Easterwood: Safe paths to all

[18:06] Candaris Randt: Be well all

[18:07] janette Inglewood: aye be well

[18:07] Kati Evans: Thank you, Janette