2011-01-10 22:25:27 note card
Meeting Summary: Magistrates Course - Class 5 (Sentencing)
Instructor: Janette Inglewood
Participants:
Claudette Debruyere
Jessie Sinister
Syd Cicerone
Sonja Zuta
Stefania Wildrose
Lacey Arentire
Carin McBride
Hazzard Ruby (joined late, received copy of chat)
Kandyl Ghoststar (joined late, received copy of chat)
Meeting Summary:
Janette Inglewood led the fifth class of the Magistrates course, focusing on the challenging topic of sentencing in Second Life (SL) Gorean roleplay. She emphasized that sentencing is highly individualized and significantly affected by the limitations of SL.
Key Points and Discussions:
Book-Based Sentences vs. SL Reality:
First-offense theft: In the books, this typically results in ear notching, followed by limb removals for further offenses. This allows other Magistrates to identify repeat offenders.
SL limitations: Ear notching and limb removals are difficult to enforce and roleplay convincingly in SL, as it relies on the player to actively roleplay the physical change, which rarely happens.
Bans and Fines: Permanent bans can negatively impact sim traffic. Fines are complicated by different in-sim coin systems.
Whipping/Imprisonment: Whippings lack actual pain, and imprisonment often leads to "boring RP" for everyone involved.
Conclusion: Magistrates need to be imaginative and creative with sentencing to retain a "flavour of the books" while being practical for SL.
Alternatives and Creative Sentencing:
Collaring: This works well in SL but Magistrates must be mindful of the disproportionately high number of collared females in SL compared to book-based ratios. They should avoid adding to this trend indiscriminately.
Men rarely accept collars, though some exceptions exist. Janette acknowledged this challenge for female Magistrates.
Humiliation/Loss of Honor: Public whippings, while not physically painful, can be harrowing for proud free people. Public stocks were also mentioned as a possibility for Olni.
Temporary Bans: Preferred for rule infractions rather than serious law breaks.
Loss of Rank/Caste/Privileges: This requires reporting the offense to the Caste Head and requesting the action; typically, Caste Heads agree to such requests.
Public Service/Unpaid Duties: Examples include a "she-urt" sentenced to two weeks of cleaning an inn, which became an IC "feature" and enriched the RP. This is seen as more beneficial than simply collaring someone.
Magistrate's Role in Sentencing:
Enforcement & Respect: Sentences must be "workable" and relate to the offense, while having some semblance of book-based authenticity. Magistrates need the support and understanding of their sim's council or leaders (e.g., consulting the Commander for a Guard's sentence).
Balance: Janette, while not afraid to sentence harshly for serious crimes, balances this with creativity to encourage continued roleplay.
Unwanted Players: For genuinely malicious crimes (e.g., a "treasonous" player who switched sides during a raid, not as a spy for another city but simply out of "nastiness"), a death sentence and/or ban might be appropriate even if it means losing an RP'er, especially if the player is "unwanted."
Bila Huruma's Sentences: Janette cited examples from the books, particularly Bila Huruma, as a "superb example of finding sentences that match the offence," even if harsh and "manic" (e.g., hanging a tax liar by his tongue; dissolving an FC contract and punishing both parties creatively). These sentences, though extreme, are often "RP-able."
Homework:
There is no homework for the current week.
Next week's class will focus on sentencing and will include a new piece of coursework.
A trial will be held later in the course to put everything into practice.
[13:02] janette Inglewood: tal all and welcome to week 5 of the Magistrate course
[13:02] Claudette Debruyere: smiles
[13:02] Jessie Sinister thinks "Wow! 5?!?"
[13:02] Syd Cicerone blinks at how fast it is going
[13:02] Sonja Zuta smiles
[13:02] janette Inglewood: today we are going to look at sentencing
[13:03] Stefania Wildrose: time does fly
[13:03] janette Inglewood: and then there will be a piece of course work on the subject to do before next week
[13:03] Jessie Sinister nods
[13:03] Sonja Zuta nods
[13:04] janette Inglewood: now of all that we have discussed so far.....this is probably the most individual subject
[13:04] janette Inglewood: whilst there is book guidance on the obvious things...the truth is the things most likely to affect you, are very open ended
[13:05] janette Inglewood: and it tends to be an individual thing
[13:05] janette Inglewood: furthermore Sl affects it to quite a degree
[13:06] janette Inglewood: for example.....what is the usual sentence for a first offence of theft?
[13:06] Jessie Sinister brain cramp
[13:06] Sonja Zuta is not sure
[13:06] Stefania Wildrose: @
[13:06] Carin McBride grins
[13:06] janette Inglewood: well..btb it is ear notching
[13:07] Syd Cicerone: depends on the homestone
[13:07] Syd Cicerone: lol
[13:07] Sonja Zuta: cool
[13:07] janette Inglewood: this enables any Magistrate in any City to see the person was convicted
[13:07] janette Inglewood: sorry Stefania.....was that your answer?
[13:08] Jessie Sinister pssst..say "yes" /winks
[13:08] janette Inglewood: so.....when someone come before You...check their ear
[13:08] Claudette Debruyere: @
[13:08] Stefania Wildrose: mens hands cut of and women enslavement??
[13:08] janette Inglewood: further offences are limb removals
[13:09] janette Inglewood: yes.....but first offence is the ear
[13:09] Stefania Wildrose nods
[13:09] janette Inglewood: now then.....this is of course awkward on sl
[13:10] janette Inglewood: it requires the criminal basically to rp the sentence
[13:10] janette Inglewood: and how many people have you ever seen..rp'ing a removed limb?
[13:10] lacey Arentire: @
[13:10] janette Inglewood: Lacey?
[13:10] Sonja Zuta smiles
[13:11] lacey Arentire: i've seen one, he had a peg leg, one eye, and no hand, he was a very unque charactor
[13:11] Stefania Wildrose whispering, havent seen aby either
[13:11] janette Inglewood: splendid
[13:11] Stefania Wildrose: awful
[13:11] janette Inglewood: i had a pirate admit to an ear notch once
[13:12] lacey Arentire: he was very fun to be around, he rped very well
[13:12] Stefania Wildrose smiles amused
[13:12] janette Inglewood: but lets face it...however btb we wish to be...it doesnt work on sl
[13:12] Sonja Zuta smiles
[13:13] Syd Cicerone nods
[13:13] janette Inglewood: similairly, if you make a habit of banning people....your sim admin will soon lose patience with you when their traffic is down
[13:13] janette Inglewood: consequently.....we need to be imaginitive with sentencing
[13:14] janette Inglewood: incoming
[13:14] janette Inglewood: impalement works pretty well on sl mind you
[13:14] janette Inglewood: but that is really only for the big crimes
[13:15] janette Inglewood: and its the same with fines......cities use different coin systems.....it makes consistent fining pretty tricky
[13:16] janette Inglewood: i did a trial in Aestia a while back....and had to try to decipher their wage structure before i could fine the person
[13:17] janette Inglewood: so....ear notching, limb removal, permanent bans and fines are all actually quite difficult to utilise on sl
[13:17] janette Inglewood: whippings.....well the person doesnt actually feel the whip
[13:18] janette Inglewood: imprisonment..ends up being a really boring rp for all involved
[13:19] janette Inglewood: and so....you can see that one needs to be very creative with sentencing on sl....and yet retain a flavour of the books.
[13:19] Sonja Zuta: me smiles
[13:20] janette Inglewood: would somebody do me a favour and copy and paste the class so far for Hazzard and Kandyl please
[13:20] Jessie Sinister: yes
[13:21] janette Inglewood: i know sl is being a tarsk today
[13:22] janette Inglewood: now, with something like ear notching......i will still use it as a sentence
[13:22] janette Inglewood: i then record the name...and if i hear that person is in court again..i will share the information with the Magistrate
[13:23] janette Inglewood: i tend to know many of them......but it isnt a great system even then
[13:23] janette Inglewood: any questions so far?
[13:24] Carin McBride: @
[13:24] janette Inglewood: Carin?
[13:24] Carin McBride: how do you handel that you OOC know its the second time the man/woman is in court for theft, but when you rp it they plain out denie* it?
[13:25] janette Inglewood: well to be honest.....if i am sure they were already notched...then it isnt ooc
[13:26] janette Inglewood: but yes its a good point and again shows the problem we have with sl and btb sentencing
[13:26] Sonja Zuta nods
[13:26] janette Inglewood: lets look at some alternatives we hav
[13:27] janette Inglewood: now...the most obvious one is collaring
[13:27] janette Inglewood: this works pefectly well on sl
[13:27] Syd Cicerone: hahaha
[13:27] Sonja Zuta smiles
[13:28] janette Inglewood: however....remember we said before....sl has 50% of females in collars against a btb ratio of 3 -7%
[13:28] Claudette Debruyere: @
[13:28] janette Inglewood: so just adding to that with gay abandon...doesnt help anyone
[13:28] janette Inglewood: Claudette?
[13:29] Claudette Debruyere: Men never accept a collar. Even for punishment
[13:29] Claudette Debruyere: And especially not from a woman
[13:29] Syd Cicerone: not so
[13:29] Syd Cicerone: some men do
[13:29] Carin McBride: 1 out of 20 maybe
[13:29] janette Inglewood: yes thats right..they love to announce that they would die first...but sadly seldom do
[13:29] Syd Cicerone: Tarl was enslaved himself
[13:29] janette Inglewood: lag is getting me
[13:29] Claudette Debruyere: Nods to Syd
[13:30] janette Inglewood: well some do............it is not a total problem....but it can be tricky
[13:30] Claudette Debruyere: My question is: What do you do, as a female magistrate. Man, I don't want the headache
[13:31] janette Inglewood: another thing that does work on sl...is the sense of humiliation....loss of honour
[13:32] janette Inglewood: a public whipping...whilst not inflicting actual pain....is nonetheless very harrowing for a proud free person
[13:33] janette Inglewood: i have considered public stocks for Olni also
[13:34] janette Inglewood: then there are temporary bans from the sim....i prefer to use them for rules infactions than for actual law breaks
[13:34] Claudette Debruyere: nods
[13:34] janette Inglewood: also...loss of rank...loss of Caste...priveleges
[13:34] Sonja Zuta nods
[13:34] Claudette Debruyere: @
[13:35] janette Inglewood: and not going quite as far as a collar....public service......unpaid duties and such like
[13:35] janette Inglewood: Claudette?
[13:35] Jessie Sinister: @
[13:35] Sonja Zuta smiles
[13:35] Claudette Debruyere: How do you go about taking away rank? Isn't that within their caste?
[13:36] janette Inglewood: yes...You report the offence to the Caste head..and request the action
[13:36] Stefania Wildrose nods
[13:36] Claudette Debruyere: Hopefully they will listen to you?
[13:36] Jessie Sinister puts his hand down
[13:37] janette Inglewood: if they wish a thief to still work among them...then ill try a different sentence
[13:37] janette Inglewood: but normally it can be agreed
[13:38] janette Inglewood: the pint i am making is...you need to find sentences that can be worked
[13:38] janette Inglewood: *point
[13:38] Jessie Sinister nods
[13:38] janette Inglewood: that relate to the offence...and have some semblance of btb about them
[13:38] Claudette Debruyere: OK
[13:38] Carin McBride nods
[13:39] janette Inglewood: here in Olni........i have the support and understanding of the council....and part of your job as Magistrates.......
[13:39] janette Inglewood: is most certainly to gain respect and support
[13:40] janette Inglewood: and this is not achieved by riding roughshod over everybody
[13:41] janette Inglewood: if i wish a Guard to be sentenced to 10 nights of gate duty...i would of course consult the Commander
[13:41] janette Inglewood: after all i will need His support in enforcing such a sentence
[13:42] Syd Cicerone nods
[13:43] janette Inglewood: now as You may or may not know...i am not afraid to sentence quite harshly...if so needed
[13:43] janette Inglewood: but...i balance that with an attempt to be creative...and find sentences that people will actually rp with
[13:44] janette Inglewood: if they have at least been honest enough to rp the trial..then it is only right that we respond with sentences that continue the rp
[13:45] janette Inglewood: the she-urt that got 2 weeks of cleaning the inn....became quite a feature for a hile
[13:45] janette Inglewood: *while
[13:45] janette Inglewood: much better than just collaring her to the city....another bad city girl
[13:45] Carin McBride nods
[13:46] janette Inglewood: now in the assignment i shall send out later....you will see the sentencing handed out by Bila
[13:47] janette Inglewood: although it is harsh....at times....and a little manic......it is a superb example of finding sentences that match the offence
[13:47] Jessie Sinister: agreed
[13:47] Stefania Wildrose nods
[13:47] janette Inglewood: the man who lies about his taxes...being hanged by his tongue for example
[13:48] Claudette Debruyere: Whoa
[13:48] Stefania Wildrose touches her tongue
[13:48] Hazzard Ruby: "The next to appear before Bila Huruma were two members of the nobility, a man and his companion. He complained of her that she had been unwilling to please him. By one word and a stroke of his hand between them Bila Huruma dissolved their companionship. He then ordered that the man be put in the dress of a woman and beaten from the court with sticks. This was done. He then ordered that the woman be stripped and a vine leash be put on her neck. She was then sentenced to a barrack of askaris for a year, that she might learn how to please men."
~Explorers of Gor, page 231~
[13:48] Jessie Sinister nods, Bila was awesome
[13:48] Carin McBride checks her tax books quickly
[13:48] janette Inglewood: and i cant give you all the answers to how to sentence...it is an individual thing
[13:49] janette Inglewood: i can only urge you to think of what works...for your City....your rp'ers.....the morale....and yet shows that the law must be respected
[13:49] Stefania Wildrose: aw yes I read that sentence... astonishing
[13:50] Hazzard Ruby: Clever and funny.
[13:50] janette Inglewood: yes, and of course that example...also shows an FC contract being terminated
[13:50] Stefania Wildrose: yes, rpable
[13:50] Syd Cicerone: but being terminated with dire cost
[13:50] janette Inglewood: so..i urge you to think beyond the obvious when confronted with sentencing
[13:51] janette Inglewood: be aware of the constraints of sl....and of the fact that people can just walk away
[13:51] Claudette Debruyere: Agreed
[13:51] Kandyl Ghoststar nods
[13:51] Stefania Wildrose nods
[13:52] Hazzard Ruby: If you make the sentence a RP opportunity though?
[13:52] janette Inglewood: and for many that are prepared to actually rp the trial....there is no point in then just banning a good rp'er from your city
[13:52] Hazzard Ruby: *nods
[13:53] janette Inglewood: yes. it can enrich everybody's rp
[13:54] janette Inglewood: of course....nasty...malicious crimes....are a little different
[13:54] janette Inglewood: i had someone here...who turned sides during a raid
[13:54] Syd Cicerone: o.O
[13:54] janette Inglewood: clearly seen by everyone to do it
[13:54] Stefania Wildrose: turned sides?
[13:54] janette Inglewood: and yes we killed Him and banned Him
[13:55] janette Inglewood: yes....once the raiders were inside...He joined them
[13:55] Carin McBride: @
[13:55] Kandyl Ghoststar: Treason
[13:55] Stefania Wildrose unloyalties do deserve death
[13:55] janette Inglewood: well yes...........but not even nice rp treason....all out nastiness
[13:55] janette Inglewood: Carin?
[13:56] Carin McBride: I just wondre why the ban.. I undestand the killing of the man, but not the banning unless its perm death on your sim
[13:57] Stefania Wildrose: unreliable rper
[13:57] Claudette Debruyere: He must have been exceptionally bad
[13:57] janette Inglewood: it would not have been permanent at the time
[13:57] janette Inglewood: death sentence here is now...but then it was 7 days i think
[13:57] Carin McBride: I mean we have spies all over cities.. would be unfair to ban them for doing what they are supose to
[13:57] janette Inglewood: so we didnt want Him back
[13:58] Claudette Debruyere: laughs at Carin
[13:58] Carin McBride smirks at widow
[13:58] Stefania Wildrose smiles
[13:58] janette Inglewood: well in this case...we took the view that He was unwanted
[13:59] janette Inglewood: this was a merc gang...not even a raid by an enemy
[13:59] janette Inglewood: we declared Him an outlaw and that was that
[13:59] Carin McBride nods
[14:00] janette Inglewood: had He been a spy for another city, then i see your point....sentence him to death for that
[14:00] janette Inglewood: right....any closing questions?
[14:01] Syd Cicerone: nay
[14:01] Carin McBride: no
[14:01] Claudette Debruyere: shakes my head
[14:01] Jessie Sinister remains silent
[14:01] Kandyl Ghoststar: nay
[14:01] janette Inglewood: so...i'll send out the class scroll as usual
[14:01] Stefania Wildrose shakesher head
[14:01] janette Inglewood: and then the coursework for next week
[14:01] janette Inglewood: thank you all for your attendance....and have a good week
[14:02] janette Inglewood: and see you advocates tomorrow
[14:02] Carin McBride: like wise Lady Jan
[14:02] Stefania Wildrose: yes lady
[14:02] lacey Arentire: thanks janette you too
[14:02] Stefania Wildrose: thank you
[14:02] Jessie Sinister: Thank you, Lady
[14:02] Syd Cicerone smiles
[14:02] lacey Arentire: i wish you all well
[14:02] Claudette Debruyere: Thank you Janette
[14:02] janette Inglewood: be well all
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